11 thoughts on “Earhart’s: “There All the Honor Lies” Spoiler Space”

  1. Nice to see the tension between Sheriden and the Mimbari are not swept under the carpet after the first few episodes of the season. So much being set up here with Vir’s path from outcast to emperor.

    1. On the other hand, I tend to feel that this story shows the marks of ’90s episodic TV in the way that it abruptly picks up the thread of Minbari hostility to Sheridan late in the season, a thread which the show then drops for the rest of the season (unless I’m forgetting something). It wouldn’t bother me in S1, but S2 has gotten subtly better at maintaining ongoing threads in the background.

  2. Having listened to the episode, a couple of thoughts:

    It’s not just the comment about Minbari that seems out of character for Sheridan. His reaction to the bear doesn’t ring true, since his thinking has to be “It’s fine if it’s the station, but if it’s *me*, that’s outrageous.” Sheridan never comes across elsewhere as that full of himself, at least not to me. In fact, I think the whole bear thing at the end is an ill-judged sitcom moment.

    But Londo: our hosts seemed both attracted to and skeptical of the idea of a redemption arc, but I think that There All the Honor lies absolutely does form part of what appears to be a redemption arc for Londo, but isn’t.

    This is the second hint at a better Londo in what are almost two successive episodes- we saw another promising moment in Acts of Sacrifice. And soon we are going to have Knives – not the greatest episode, but one which seems tailored to supply Londo with an epiphany that will lead him to turn to the upwards path.

    But then we have The Long, Twilight Struggle, in which Londo sees what he has done, and doubles down. So I think this is all suited to create a false expectations in order to dash them.

    However, it also foreshadows Londo’s actual redemption arc in S4-S5. In TAtHL specifically, his indirect acknowledgment of Vir’s value to him will be mirrored in The Hour of the Wolf when he turns to Vir as the first recruit in his conspiracy to kill Cartagia and (in a very Londoesque way) acknowledges that it’s Vir’s moral superiority that makes their relationship precious to Londo.

    In hindsight, this hint at redemption reinforces one of the explicit elements in Londo’s story: he was always capable of better, and in the end does better – but too late for him.

  3. OK, now I have an observation about the NEXT spisode, “In The Shadow of Z’ha’dum.” And because I don’t know when the discussion threads go live – and I usually don’t see them until after the equivalent podcast is out – I’d really like to address it here, because I hope you’ll mention it in the recording.

    In ITSoZ, Sheridan mentions the bombing of Coventry and how the British let it happen to protect our decryption of Enigma. But the thing is, it’s not true.

    In a nutshell, the Coventry Myth began when, at a time the whole secret of what Bletchley Park was up to during the war came out, one of the codebreakers there decided to publish his own memoir. Because it was very unauthorised, he had no access to official records so had to rely on his own (imperfect) memory and office gossip. One of these anecdotes was that Coventry had been sacrificed to protect Enigma.

    In truth, yes, the British knew from decoded intercept there was going to be a bombing raid that night. But they didn’t know where. Neither did the German pilots doing it – they navigated along one radio beacon (from France) until they met a point triangulated with another one (usually from Norway) and dropped their bombs there. There was little the government could do without panicking the whole country (and, yes, revealing they’d broken the Luftwaffe’s codes).

    So why is this important? Because I’ve seen several accounts of how the myth persists which directly credit its citing in this episode as helping to perpetuate an untruth. The fog of war causes enough mystery without adding to it conspiracy theories that play into a certain “teh guvmint is EEVUL” mindset!

    1. We are a bit early for this chat Lee, but yes, I’d also found the rather resonant ugly on Coventry to be a myth and you’re right to bring it to task., I guess one that JMS swallowed? It could fit with the dynamic of a two sides-two lies narrative,, Sheridan as propaganda tool, the Vorlons being guiltier than the Sahdows, Lochley being right that the rebellion was misjudged, but no, I really don’t buy that for head canon. Just a bit of bad writing unfortunately, which comes over as good writing due to the framing and context of ItSoZ.

      As to the teddy bear spacing, excellent analysis Voord. I enjoyed it but it never felt right. It would have worked entirely if Ivanova had spaced an Ivanova trinket, except perhaps that we’ve had a bunch of cracks about Ivanova spacing thingsand it might get old.

  4. What contributons do you people feel this episode makes to the Sheridan/Delenn romance story arc?

    I have head some remarks in the podcast about Delenn’s reaction to Sheridan being accused of killing a Minbari, but from what I understand of the episode I don’t think Delenn ever believed that Sheridan was guilty. She knows him enough by now to know that such an act would be completely out of character, she even says as much to Lennier. If Delenn did not believe that Sheridan was responsible then would she ever have doubted their relationship?

    Then at the end, Sheridan offers a deal with Delenn and Lennier where he would help him and the Chudomo clan to save face; he would not reveal the evidence, the charges woudl be dropped and the whole matter would be considered just another mystery.

    He did this to help Lennier and his people, he owed Lennier no debt, Lennier had no claim on him and in Minbari eyes this may be considered a favour one might do for a family member or clansman, not merely an acquaintance.

    1. Iwonder if Delenn considers doubting Sheridan a moment before reaching the more sensible conclusion she shares with Lennier and us. She may have kept face over her transition in dealing with the grey council and this eps nasty fellow, but shes been minbari most of her life and he star killer. Might Sheridan have shot to wound? Not fair, like the black star?

      Despite the suspiciously species-ist line to Garibaldi about the witness having bones in the head, it seems Sheridan doesn’t report this for the sake of his relationship with Lennier primarily. He’s noticeably worried accusations against him put pressure on his relationship with Delenn. This is a great episode for their relationship, ensuring the problems of being former enemies aren’t smoothed over, and the love follows a sensible pace.

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